Zenon Storybook AZ

I had a think, and realised I wasn’t explaining my efforts properly. Each article takes about 10 hours, unless it’s a difficult one that can take a month of struggling with it to understand the concepts, present it well and make it entertaining. And the storybook, not talking about writing it, but each image could take 20minutes or could take 2 hours to generate a suitable image for one chapter, and there were 60 chapters. I’d estimate about 1000 hours of work total over the 2 years but it’s not like I was clocking in and clocking off.

To be honest, I was originally going to ask for two AZs, but to make life easy I made a major concession and went in only asking for one. But some are saying that’s still too much, and frankly I just want this disappointing ordeal to be over with.

I can make an additional concession and resubmit to ask only for 65% of the 1 AZ, so 5k ZNN and 15k QSR.

You’re delusional, not surprised as its common amongst the entitled

  • In the US you can work at Chick Filet for $26/hr.
  • In my experience in writing all these articles, ChatGPT can help some but they don’t write the articles. I helped Alien with his last post and ChatGPT actually made it take longer. There is no way around these articles taking a long time to write.
  • I’m afraid focusing on performance metrics as the only measurement of the success of a marketing idea will kill all community ideas.

I think community members should submit AZs for marketing efforts with specific goals in mind and I personally hope they don’t need performance metrics to get approved. For example, someone should submit an AZ to write an investment thesis on NoM. We have no idea how many people will click on it, read it, or if it will lead to conversion. And the AZ should not be determined by those metrics IMO. But I assure you that if we write something like this for NoM it will be valuable.

I think an article like this will take 40 hours to write. At 50/hr that’s about $2000 USD or 1000 ZNN. That seems like a fair request to me.

If i had a pillar i’d vote yes on.
Zyler’s contributions are invaluable and the funding he requests is justified given the significance of his work. He is pioneering in documenting our culture and ethics, making it accessible to the wider crypto community.
The storybook itself is worth 5K ZNN.
Without Zyler who else would have chronicled the history of our network? Understanding our roots is essential for taking part as community member or dev, and his detailed articles of our origin and lore are indispensable.
Please don’t neglect culture, the articles are very useful for newcomers.

3 Likes

https://twitter.com/SpiderCrypto0x/status/1725833844719562802?t=AFXwo-yjTkAS0A_Wg-WXLA&s=19

This single tweet resulted in over 40k views for one of the zenon decks and likely already paid for the AZ with the subsequent inflow of new capital. This doesn’t even take into account the numerous holders I onboarded to zenon via dms, or all the buys generated by zenon.org which built is entire marketing strategy based on the narratives and content I compiled.

Surely you can show how 40 articles merit 5k ZNN beyond just a few hundred views? If not, it is quite concerning if you believe you’re the one making a compromise here. It’s a shame you’ve been led to believe you are owed significant gratitude and compensation by some people who repeatedly displayed utter incompetence when assessing marketing related AZs.

I want to emphasize that your efforts have value but you need help to get your content seen in order for it to become valuable. My and @mehowbrainz offer still stands to help you get the attribution needed with zenon.org’s tools so you can submit an AZ that, without a doubt, will pass.


We need to be able to determine / justify value of work with logic… submitting 5k / 50k for everything in a bear when ZNN was below $1 is something we must leave in the past.

Value your work, justify that value, make your ask specific.

2 Likes

You’ve been doing great work Shazz. The 500 views I mentioned are actually reads on medium. If we’re talking about impressions, those are in the thousands. But impressions include people who just scroll past it and don’t click anything. That’s why I clarified the storybook had 7600 impressions, but only 220 clicks. So about 3% who scrolled by it actually clicked to read it. I do need help with getting my content seen, all content creators have that issue. The thing people are discussing is the precedent of the deck being initially paid out based on content creation alone.

But Mehowz did make a good point in telegram, about how just because that was the way it was done before, now things have evolved, it can be done differently moving forwards with the newly created tools. Deeznutz also made some good points too though. I’ll need to think about it and talk to some people, maybe we can DM a bit too.

1 Like

Thanks for the effort youre making here and with the content, your willingness to cooperate is a helpful example/precedent.

1 Like

Agreed appreciate the effort in articles / engagement in this convo.

To be clear I’m not against this proposal but I do believe we need to pivot to a more sustainable and logical way of valuing our work for the sake of everyone here.

1 Like

Please reach out at any time. We can do a mutual chat with mehowz, there are probably good ways to incorporate content into zenon.org via the static funnels he’s currently building

Sorry that’s false. Many of you still don’t get it and I understand why, I will lead by example soon between .Org articles + its static funnels. Hopefully it’ll be an “aha moment” for you all. You won’t need to use .org branding for basic funnels.

Imagine you write an article, and all your links lead to individual attribute funnels i.e. buy znn, use the bridge etc.

What wasn’t killed:

  1. You were able to be as creative as you want with your content. As long as it drives readers and traffic to clear goals. I’m open to any and all ideas for content, as long as there’s some basic marketing strategy there. It can be discussed via DM anytime.

  2. You can measure how successful your content was at driving down some path. Did people go somewhere valuable to the network in the end? Did they swap wZNN > ZNN a few weeks later? All is possible thanks to Attribute.

What performance-based marketing does is:

  • Ask content creators to be narrow in objectives. Are you using your article to introduce Zenon at the awareness stage? What is the purpose of the content?

  • Are you using your article to try to lead them down a conversion path directly? What can the network get in return from that reader in order to nurture him?

  • Allows you to break down the costs as I outlined above. How much did it cost per view. How much did it cost to get a lead? How much did it cost to get a wZNN>ZNN swap?

Here’s the problem: The community isn’t trying to learn the value of performance/strategy-based marketing. They want to create content as freely as they want, ask insane amounts (likely more than any seasoned pro in the space for the same type of work), without the responsibility of making sure their work is valuable in the end. They don’t want to accept that in this day and age in web, we can be lead with metrics. But that’s what you get from a community which has 0 experience in web marketing.

2 Likes

We can agree to disagree.

We should encourage someone to write an investment thesis on NoM, like multichain did for THORChain. It will take 40+ hours and that time is worth something. We should pay for that time, regardless of the number of clicks it generates or conversions it creates. And I think many other pillars would support this given my discussions with them.

And, I believe we should encourage people to make AZs that do not include perfect marketing execution. We are in the FAFO stage. And I think we should try some FAFO marketing.

IRL, I market the lease of apartment units. We use google ad words, ILS, and several syndication sources. We can track leads and where they come from, but I cannot track with 100% certainty every lead, the source, and who signed a lease per source. That technology requires a team to implement and manage. Regardless, I’ve managed to sign thousands of leases with my subpar marketing and I can make ad spend decisions based on my shitty systems. The incremental time and money required for perfection FAR exceed the cost of the marketing itself. So I do some shotgun marketing b/ it cheaper and easier to manage.

Setting this aside, I’m not saying that I support Zyler’s AZ. But I do think the current environment around marketing AZ is not conducive to anyone wanting to market this project.

Keyword here. You want external sources to write content, they have readers, reputation, relations. They’re not a community member promoting content to existing community. That’s a whole different situation.

I disagree, we have enough new tools to actually lead towards performance. Just because people don’t want to learn how (but they’re OG’s), doesn’t mean we have to accept their work.

Step 1: They have to realize that there’s talent in the community building towards performance, and his tools and time is available to all willing to learn a thing or two. A content creator is not a marketer. It’s simply a segment of the overall mix to claim you successfully marketed a brand. That’s why most of the influencers out there in any market, are usually just pure affiliates. They promote products, which have funnels/purchase flows designed by marketers (who can then nurture the lead the influencer brought in). Article writing is an equivalent subset, but when he doesn’t have an audience other than the current followers, can you really compare him to influencer level which may have an audience? No. Do you see how many skills are missing to value this at the rate he asked? Content strategy to drive a conversion for the network, distribution audience (flows/funnels will be offered by Attribute soon) all are part of the value mix, and it’s missing.

Devaluing performance will only make performant marketers and their future proposals more expensive if the community wants to set low benchmarks as the standard. Might be good for me, just saying it now.

I think Zyler’s work is worth $20 per hour for the effort.

I appreciate the enthusiasm we’re displaying towards this proposal. It stands out for several reasons: zyler’s involvement, the proposal’s timing, and our history of proposals. I believe that having an in-depth discussion on establishing standards for marketing-specific proposals will greatly benefit us in the long run.

Since @mehowbrainz joined our ecosystem, his grasp of marketing concepts and vision for a performance metrics-based marketing framework have been evident. Personally, I have been interested in enhancing my marketing skills. After reaching out to him, he shared some valuable resources and books. Consequently, I have been diligently studying Marketing.

I would like to highlight a concept that demonstrates how both @0x3639 and @mehowbrainz can be simultaneously correct, despite their differing approaches. In Seth Godin’s book “This is Marketing”, he distinguishes between Direct Marketing and Brand Marketing.

Brand marketing focuses on building trust and awareness for your brand, and its impact is largely unquantifiable. In contrast, Direct Marketing aims to prompt specific actions (like clicks, impressions, purchases) and its effectiveness is entirely measurable.

Our website footer states “Built by the Community.” If we aim to establish a brand around this concept, all community contributions (like zyler’s articles and development updates) can be leveraged in Direct Marketing (which is quantifiable) and also enhance our brand, providing immense yet unmeasurable value to our ecosystem.

Furthermore, contributors should consider another important aspect. Your contributions, depending on their nature, might not only benefit the community but also build equity in your personal brand. While not everyone can contribute code that gets merged into our zenon-network repository, consider the example of ZenonHub. As Zenon succeeds, ZenonHub, with its headstart as an explorer, is likely to become more feature-rich than its competitors, adding substantial value to the ZenonHub brand. This is similar to the value etherscan has accrued. The same principle applies to individual marketers building personal brands or Zenon.info evolving into a professional publication, and so on.

I strongly side with SultanOfStaking’s take, in that my issue personally is supporting another proposal for the maximum amount. The equation is not as simple as how much time the contributor has sinked into the proposal times how much he/she values his/her time. I hope that by my remarks in this post, you can appreciate it that It’s a lot more complicated than that, and we should negotiate and come to an agreement hence why we believe all contributors should start the discussion as early as possible when funds will be requested for work delivered.

3 Likes

I like what you do @zyler9985 but I think this request is too much and the amount should be reconsidered. At this point in time I don’t think spending this much of the treasury on this type of content is justified.

1 Like

I think the request is completely valid and no need to be reconsidered. Maybe when there is 10,000 active network members, then reconsideration for amount might be required. At this current stage of the project it is a 100% valid request imo.