Zenon Storybook AZ

Marketing ╰ Funding | Submissions
36

You’ve been doing great work Shazz. The 500 views I mentioned are actually reads on medium. If we’re talking about impressions, those are in the thousands. But impressions include people who just scroll past it and don’t click anything. That’s why I clarified the storybook had 7600 impressions, but only 220 clicks. So about 3% who scrolled by it actually clicked to read it. I do need help with getting my content seen, all content creators have that issue. The thing people are discussing is the precedent of the deck being initially paid out based on content creation alone.

But Mehowz did make a good point in telegram, about how just because that was the way it was done before, now things have evolved, it can be done differently moving forwards with the newly created tools. Deeznutz also made some good points too though. I’ll need to think about it and talk to some people, maybe we can DM a bit too.

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37

Thanks for the effort youre making here and with the content, your willingness to cooperate is a helpful example/precedent.

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38

Agreed appreciate the effort in articles / engagement in this convo.

To be clear I’m not against this proposal but I do believe we need to pivot to a more sustainable and logical way of valuing our work for the sake of everyone here.

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39

Please reach out at any time. We can do a mutual chat with mehowz, there are probably good ways to incorporate content into zenon.org via the static funnels he’s currently building

40

Sorry that’s false. Many of you still don’t get it and I understand why, I will lead by example soon between .Org articles + its static funnels. Hopefully it’ll be an “aha moment” for you all. You won’t need to use .org branding for basic funnels.

Imagine you write an article, and all your links lead to individual attribute funnels i.e. buy znn, use the bridge etc.

What wasn’t killed:

  1. You were able to be as creative as you want with your content. As long as it drives readers and traffic to clear goals. I’m open to any and all ideas for content, as long as there’s some basic marketing strategy there. It can be discussed via DM anytime.

  2. You can measure how successful your content was at driving down some path. Did people go somewhere valuable to the network in the end? Did they swap wZNN > ZNN a few weeks later? All is possible thanks to Attribute.

What performance-based marketing does is:

  • Ask content creators to be narrow in objectives. Are you using your article to introduce Zenon at the awareness stage? What is the purpose of the content?

  • Are you using your article to try to lead them down a conversion path directly? What can the network get in return from that reader in order to nurture him?

  • Allows you to break down the costs as I outlined above. How much did it cost per view. How much did it cost to get a lead? How much did it cost to get a wZNN>ZNN swap?

Here’s the problem: The community isn’t trying to learn the value of performance/strategy-based marketing. They want to create content as freely as they want, ask insane amounts (likely more than any seasoned pro in the space for the same type of work), without the responsibility of making sure their work is valuable in the end. They don’t want to accept that in this day and age in web, we can be lead with metrics. But that’s what you get from a community which has 0 experience in web marketing.

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41

We can agree to disagree.

We should encourage someone to write an investment thesis on NoM, like multichain did for THORChain. It will take 40+ hours and that time is worth something. We should pay for that time, regardless of the number of clicks it generates or conversions it creates. And I think many other pillars would support this given my discussions with them.

And, I believe we should encourage people to make AZs that do not include perfect marketing execution. We are in the FAFO stage. And I think we should try some FAFO marketing.

IRL, I market the lease of apartment units. We use google ad words, ILS, and several syndication sources. We can track leads and where they come from, but I cannot track with 100% certainty every lead, the source, and who signed a lease per source. That technology requires a team to implement and manage. Regardless, I’ve managed to sign thousands of leases with my subpar marketing and I can make ad spend decisions based on my shitty systems. The incremental time and money required for perfection FAR exceed the cost of the marketing itself. So I do some shotgun marketing b/ it cheaper and easier to manage.

Setting this aside, I’m not saying that I support Zyler’s AZ. But I do think the current environment around marketing AZ is not conducive to anyone wanting to market this project.

42

Keyword here. You want external sources to write content, they have readers, reputation, relations. They’re not a community member promoting content to existing community. That’s a whole different situation.

43

I disagree, we have enough new tools to actually lead towards performance. Just because people don’t want to learn how (but they’re OG’s), doesn’t mean we have to accept their work.

44

Step 1: They have to realize that there’s talent in the community building towards performance, and his tools and time is available to all willing to learn a thing or two. A content creator is not a marketer. It’s simply a segment of the overall mix to claim you successfully marketed a brand. That’s why most of the influencers out there in any market, are usually just pure affiliates. They promote products, which have funnels/purchase flows designed by marketers (who can then nurture the lead the influencer brought in). Article writing is an equivalent subset, but when he doesn’t have an audience other than the current followers, can you really compare him to influencer level which may have an audience? No. Do you see how many skills are missing to value this at the rate he asked? Content strategy to drive a conversion for the network, distribution audience (flows/funnels will be offered by Attribute soon) all are part of the value mix, and it’s missing.

45

Devaluing performance will only make performant marketers and their future proposals more expensive if the community wants to set low benchmarks as the standard. Might be good for me, just saying it now.

I think Zyler’s work is worth $20 per hour for the effort.

46

I appreciate the enthusiasm we’re displaying towards this proposal. It stands out for several reasons: zyler’s involvement, the proposal’s timing, and our history of proposals. I believe that having an in-depth discussion on establishing standards for marketing-specific proposals will greatly benefit us in the long run.

Since @mehowbrainz joined our ecosystem, his grasp of marketing concepts and vision for a performance metrics-based marketing framework have been evident. Personally, I have been interested in enhancing my marketing skills. After reaching out to him, he shared some valuable resources and books. Consequently, I have been diligently studying Marketing.

I would like to highlight a concept that demonstrates how both @0x3639 and @mehowbrainz can be simultaneously correct, despite their differing approaches. In Seth Godin’s book “This is Marketing”, he distinguishes between Direct Marketing and Brand Marketing.

Brand marketing focuses on building trust and awareness for your brand, and its impact is largely unquantifiable. In contrast, Direct Marketing aims to prompt specific actions (like clicks, impressions, purchases) and its effectiveness is entirely measurable.

Our website footer states “Built by the Community.” If we aim to establish a brand around this concept, all community contributions (like zyler’s articles and development updates) can be leveraged in Direct Marketing (which is quantifiable) and also enhance our brand, providing immense yet unmeasurable value to our ecosystem.

Furthermore, contributors should consider another important aspect. Your contributions, depending on their nature, might not only benefit the community but also build equity in your personal brand. While not everyone can contribute code that gets merged into our zenon-network repository, consider the example of ZenonHub. As Zenon succeeds, ZenonHub, with its headstart as an explorer, is likely to become more feature-rich than its competitors, adding substantial value to the ZenonHub brand. This is similar to the value etherscan has accrued. The same principle applies to individual marketers building personal brands or Zenon.info evolving into a professional publication, and so on.

I strongly side with SultanOfStaking’s take, in that my issue personally is supporting another proposal for the maximum amount. The equation is not as simple as how much time the contributor has sinked into the proposal times how much he/she values his/her time. I hope that by my remarks in this post, you can appreciate it that It’s a lot more complicated than that, and we should negotiate and come to an agreement hence why we believe all contributors should start the discussion as early as possible when funds will be requested for work delivered.

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47

I like what you do @zyler9985 but I think this request is too much and the amount should be reconsidered. At this point in time I don’t think spending this much of the treasury on this type of content is justified.

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48

I think the request is completely valid and no need to be reconsidered. Maybe when there is 10,000 active network members, then reconsideration for amount might be required. At this current stage of the project it is a 100% valid request imo.

49

Resubmission on Zyler’s behalf: Supporting Valuable Contributions by @zyler9985

Dear Zenon Community,

We’re revitalizing Zyler9985’s AZ proposal with a new resubmission, recognizing the immense value of his contributions. Previously, some of us voted NO due to the max request, but after further reflection, it’s clear we must correct this stance. Supporting valuable work is essential for the growth and success of our network.

Zyler’s 40 articles and comprehensive storybook have significantly strengthened our brand and community ethos, contributing to our growth in ways beyond mere metrics. His content provides foundational knowledge and engages users, laying the groundwork for onboarding new members and developers.

DeezNutz and I are taking the initiative and resubmitting a new AZ on behalf of Zyler. We acknowledge the substantial value of Zyler’s work and believe it deserves recognition and support.

It’s time to change our approach to hypergrowth. The AZ fund must support valuable contributions to ensure continued progress. Therefore, we propose 5,000 ZNN and 50,000 QSR to Zyler for his two years of work. Let’s set the right precedent: the network pays when value is created.

Support this AZ and pay Zyler for the valuable work he created. For more details on the logistics and community escrow chosen, please read the full proposal

Thank you for your continued support and engagement.

Retake the green pill :point_down:

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In the past six months, I’ve realized that turning down Zyler’s contributions actually harms Zenon more in the long run than protecting AZ funds. I hope we can come together as a community to correct this mistake.

private DM with Zyler while his AZ was active|x468
private DM with Zyler while his AZ was active|x4681080×733 56.6 KB

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50

I quote my message on Telegram:

Imma post a bunch of pricings from media kits soon — you’ll see why content alone without distribution cannot be worth 5K + 50K QSR.

Quick example: A newsletter campaign with one of the major sources can cost around $2800 ($10 CPM), that’ll be sent out to 280K readers, 35% will open so 98K. So you know you’ll get 98K reads for that cost. Then 0.7% will open a link in the newsletter article (this drives down into whichever site — aka funnel but these people don’t get that a funnel is nothing more than a symbolic term to represent a path down a journey of discovery until participation is proven — even JP from THORChain who was against marketing terms started to use funnel in his latest meme strat lingo, just saying Deez you really gotta up your game here, poking doesn’t work). So at 0.7% clicks, you may get 686 clicks.

Value driven from the $2.8K = 98,000 reads of your Zenon content and 686 clicks down any link to discover any site (funnel).

Regardless of the quality of his content. As a whole, did they generate 98,000 reads to new potential participants? Or was his content shared around Zenon bag holders?

This is a data-driven game whether you like it or not.

I have no issues with paying for content like I always said, but it should be coupled with a decent distribution strategy. My vote would be to repurpose his content into sponsored content on a variety of sources (I compiled a bunch), and pay Zyler a fraction of the fee he asked + spend the funds on distribution like mentioned above. This’ll give him a pathway to participate with new content again that’s actually being distributed properly to audiences. I’m open to collaborating with Zyler 2.0 if he wishes-to. My votes would forego the conversion aspects but it would be very helpful to put in a new bridge redirect link (soon testing with sumamu) somewhere there so you can get soooome metrics if new participation occurs eventually (I can help with setting UTM parameters in it). I can’t expect too much.

P.S. I didn’t vote to be part of any Pillar Alliance (was on vacation). I’ll always argue what’s right or wrong for the network’s AZ.

If the AZ is just to pay him for the sake of paying him, then I’m voting no again. I invite you @0x3639 @coinselor to pay him out of your rewards and then create new network value with his content if you so believe in it, in its current format and distribution method.

My motto going forward with AZ: If I personally wouldn’t pay for a deliverable myself (due to costs, risks, value, quality, need and ability to create value for myself or the network) – then I don’t think AZ should pay for the deliverable either.

“Put your money where your mouth is”.

The network has to be careful in setting the right precedents, again. I’ve got plenty of stuff I spent a ton of time on which I could “claim” delivered value for the network, would love to submit those bills with an expectation to be paid, because they were pretty, sounded right, accurately reflected the network etc.

If my marketing campaigns fail I won’t submit an AZ to claim back funds for my efforts. I’ll swallow the pill and try again with a new approach. Learning pains of developing solutions of value for the network.

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51

Not all marketing can be valued in clicks and conversions. So we will agree to disagree.

I can tell you that after almost three years working on this project I only recently started to understand it after reading all 40 articles. We cannot get this information from .network, .info or .org. No where close. And the information is not in the forums or TG.

Zyler wrote a 40 article bible on the past, present and future of Zenon Network. Just because that does not convert into clicks and buys today does not mean it’s not valuable work.

For example, is the CEX integration software not valuable because we are only using it on XeggeX and the volume is almost nothing? No. The software will be used in the future, just like Zyler’s articles.

Or, should someone be compensated to complete this task posted by Alien? It creates no measurable clicks, conversions or buys today but logic says it will be helpful in the future. IMO someone should submit an AZ to do this work.

52

I support @zyler9985 because we’ve collaborated in the past on some articles and he was truly dedicated to this project.

I also understand @mehowbrainz point of view and I think we can reach a compromise with several conditions for the final payout:

  • improve the content with ChatGPT (small revisions where it’s necessary)
  • repost all the long content (articles) on Mirror instead of Medium (that is becoming more confined and centralized)
  • repost all the short content on Farcaster and Nostr instead of Twitter/X
  • repost most interesting reads on Reddit (on several subreddits)

This way the content will get indexed better and it will be way easier to create conversions/funnels out of it.

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53

His content is likely already indexed by major search engines. Sorry man, but this is an inexperienced take. I don’t think any of those platforms will drive him 100k organic reads anytime soon. Everyone who’s doing it properly in the industry, pays for quality visibility/placement.

My votes include:

  • Repurposing the content into channels of visibility: different platforms are not the answer. We need to place the content in traffic sources, and those are often paid and provided by publications which actually know how to drive traffic to audiences.
  • Shape it around one of the many Zenon brands floating around the community, depending on the content chosen. Direct traffic from the sponsored article into websites/funnels/calls for participation.

I’m going to do the above with my tools regardless if he’s in the picture or not. I appreciate @zyler9985’s efforts, but there should’ve always been a better plan for distribution rather than organic / Zenon echo chamber. I think the AZ is better spent on traffic acquisition as mentioned above, the content nowadays can be easily created with the breadth of developments and narratives created by community.

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54

Nobody has bothered to create ongoing content in the community like @zyler9985.

I support this proposal because I wish to reward the early contributors so they can continue to keep the community alive while all the tech is built in the background. Contributors are rare and we shouldn’t turn them all away, especially if they are doing the work first as concept proofs.

It’s an alternative to the boring forums in his own unique style which should not be measured by conversions, but more of a historical documenting of events proposal, Zenon Lore

I hope you find the time to read his work @mehowbrainz

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55

I think alien has some good suggestions. I have always said I think Zyler deserves something, but his ask just needs to be more specific w/ some parameters around value. I am left wondering 2 things… 1. why doesnt zyler just resubmit himself? 2. what does approval mean? Does zyler come back and contribute again, or are we just paying because we feel bad about how the first round went down?

Ultimately i think these decisions (spending AZ funds on behalf of the community) should be based on sound logic not feelings but that is just my preference. I will likely abstain or vote no unless zyler himself actually engages in this convo - and I hope he does.

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