If we bet on 10 person’s and 3 scam us I’ll still consider it a win. We paid a tremendous amount for websites with no questions regarding monthly visitors or increase in the brand reach, just saying.
Yeah, at least with vested pillars we’d be able to revoke them if the other party doesn’t hold their part of the bargain (if we implement it correctly).
Hoping we can get @sol and the rest of the HC1 team to help us out and get this initiative going!
So the idea is to offer pillars to various crypto influencers and say “Here’s free money. You can do whatever you want with this. No strings attached.”
And we’re expecting some of them to become interested in the network because we simped for them?
What’s our metric for success?
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Founding devs wrote some half assed specs on vested pillars but never delivered: https://medium.com/@zenon.network/building-bridges-4ed4eb6988a
If we wanted to have a vesting mechanism it might require an update of the embedded SC but this is not absolutely critical imo.
Recipients will be hand picked based on strategic merit and, once they’re up, they will have to run pillars a certain amount of time in any case.
KOLs should be firms/partners that align with zenon’s vision.
Giving bags to proper KOLs to promote a project is a most elementary part of the crypto playbook if you want anyone to know you exist. That’s just a fact and denying it would be naive.
We literally wasted thiusands in znn on fake promises for banner ads (which are super low effect as every msrketer can tell you). An aversion against using KOLs who are so much more effective would be illogical.
We can also tier payouts so that every 5k znn / 50k qsr gets released once the KOL has converted X number of new community members to zenon, which we can measure thanks to attribute.me.
Yes there is a chance that partners will take the money and dump the coin but it will have been only after they delivered value. And instead of just paying them in coin there is an actual probability the paid coin is locked up and used to run pillars.
At the risk of repeating myself: not every KOL is a bad actor. A KOL is simply a person or firm with a community.
On your remark re: simping, I’d like to remind you how religiously Kaine’s five bullet point roadmap is being followed devoid of any market validation. And that after he dumped a half-baked protocol into the laps of volunteer community devs and after he caused a speculative pump around bitcoin interoperability he never delivered.
In this space noone is too good to use KOLs. They are the #1 growth vector for anything. Worth getting used to that.
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This is more in line with the Medium post and my response above.
I’m not opposed to this plan.
@dat_she_pepe do you agree?
Side note: Pillars can only reclaim the ZNN. Vested pillars may or may not burn QSR when initialized, tbd.
No, the idea if to social engineer partnerships in an easier way by leveraging the vested pillar tool. Again we thrown away thousands and thousands for a website with no metrics asked toward its effect on the brand. We need a network, we can buy it.
CHR is doing that with their L1. They gaveaway validators (at seed level, so almost free VS the market) to firms and influencers (not your low level CT shillers). They will get tokens once the L1 is live and the validators producing blocks (I reckon). As frustrating as it can be for people who work in a certain way, those people would participe in the network by leveraging the social assets they gained through a similar amount of work.
Now ask yourself this: They will not shill on CT, not only. They also have contacts in private groups, whales traders, investors, other KOLs, they might know developpers, market makers etc. All of those are very hard to measure. Let’s stretch it: is one person from Jump MM joining our TG the same “+1 user” as my normie cousin I installed Syrius for? How do you put that on metrics? How do you measure that? What about the longterm effect and reputation of those people talking about ZNN in rich yatch parties, OG DeFi rooms or cryptographer summits?
You want ZNN to become a part of their culture. And this will be hard to play but deserve an open discussion. As Shazz pointed, the aversion toward KOLs might be illogical; I personally think it comes from the idea that this doesn’t look like work from a certain perspective and therefore it’s not valuable.
The truth is that it doesn’t matter. What matters is the network and how we can benefit from them. We’re sitting at a poker table, so how we can PLAY them is the question.
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You clearly are one of the few people in this project with a fundamental understanding of how this game is played. I hope there wont be opposition purely based on ignorance…
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You’ve explained why we should offer vested pillars, but haven’t elaborated on how.
Tactically ? As coding wise ?
No, I’m trying to define a vested pillar’s life cycle, from concept to result (success/failure).
How do we nominate a KOL?
How is the pillar funded?
What is our success criteria?
How do we minimize our risk?
Your answer is different than what Shazz has described.
Most, if not all of us, agree we should try to offer vested pillars. Let’s discuss what that means in practice.
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- Identify a suitable KOL
- Tell him/her we have a vested pillar available
- Negotiate terms, incl. but not limited to running a campaign on the KOL’s pillar acquisition, set up, motivation behind doing so, broader insight into the network & community etc.
- upon delivery (communication towards the KOLs community that he/she supports zenon by running a pillar, potentially incl. conversion of new community members), AZ releases funds to set up a pillar
- if vesting mechanics are available at that point, great. If not, we hope the KOL is honest and the payout is tiered accordingly…
Most KOLs want to be paid up front. To minimize our risks we should create a lead list and reach out to them pitching zenon and why we want to fund their pillar for them. Depending on their reaction and interest we can assess if any genuinely want to support the network or just look for a payday.
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Let’s drill down on the success criteria. If these aren’t defined well, we risk losing considerable treasury funds to actors that do the bare minimum or nothing at all.
Chadass stated that this process shouldn’t feel like a job. It sounds like he’s advocating for loose-to-nonexistent success criteria (paraphrasing: “let’s give them free money, no strings attached, see what happens”).
Shazz is saying there should be a marketing awareness campaign to help the KOL’s audience learn about Zenon, and maybe we include conversion metrics. This process will require some level of effort.
Some metrics that we can potentially leverage:
- Attribute.me marketing campaigns and CTR
- Wallet downloads
- The KOL’s proprietary platform metrics (e.g. Youtube/Twitter engagement, viewer retention time, website traffic, etc)
- Bridge affiliate volume
- ZNN/QSR purchases via DEX or OTC
- Pillar uptime
- AZ voting participation
- Pillar delegation weight
- minimum delegation time threshold for each address
- minimum number of delegators
The first three items can be valuable if the data is generated organically; unfortunately, these can and will be sybil’d if there is enough incentive. I think bridge volume isn’t sybil resistant, as well.
Do we have a way to track purchases? Maybe this can be part of the solution?
I guess I’m asking:
- How do we assess conversions of prospects → hodlers?
- What metrics will we use to gauge the success of these expensive campaigns?
What’s our strategy for minimizing risk?
In response to the “hope we don’t get scammed” approach: I don’t trust most people in this space, even if you have excellent DD, they’re doxed, you vouch for them, they have a reputation to uphold, etc.
A few benefits of a vested pillar contract:
- AZ may not need to pay 300k+ QSR for these pillars
- We can revoke inactive pillars
- We can implement a tiered payout system as outlined in the Medium post
- Even this is flawed and subject to collusion
I fail to see how the metrics could even start to be considered here. I’m trying to think about other ways to views it, ways that wouldn’t scare everyone away.
EDIT: or let’s say ways to formulate metrics and market them.
What’s our strategy for minimizing risk?
This is a trade, not a job offer.
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What ever happened to this initiative? Check out the vesting schedule.
https://medium.com/@zenon.network/building-bridges-4ed4eb6988a
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Does anyone know if 150k ZNN was set aside for this?
Which address holds the funds?
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I was hoping for a different response.
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Vested Pillar budget comes out of AZ fundTo minimize risk, we dont give away a pillar in one go but split it up into 3 AZ grants worth of contributions based on certain delivery milestones.
This, however, prevents pillar vesting and introduces risk of deal failure bc existing pillars have to click “yes” 6-8 times before the partner gets the funds.
If you have vesting, we should be able to give away a pillar in one go to strategic partners. Thats no different than strategic allocations during a capital raise. Our risk will be determined by what the vesting mechanism looks like @sol
Btw the single good thing about znn’s lack of liquidity is that any strategic partner is much likelier to just hold their bag and promote the project it rather than to dump it right away
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