I think we should have some patience and let Dr.Blaze finish what he started.
He said everything’s going to be ready for the end of the year.
3 Likes
Sorry for the late reply, there’s been a lot of stuff to learn and get done. Of course the wallet is still under heavy development.
The project was never just about the design. The mocks and wireframes are just a starting point and were released in order to support the further development of the mobile wallet and gather valuable feedback from the community.
I am guessing there probably aren’t many technical people in here, since there was an expectation that an entire mobile app (actually both iOS and Android versions) can be developed for 5000 znn + 50000 qsr. This kind of apps cost companies millions, Accelerator-Z alone wouldn’t be able to cover it. First look at this: https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/junior-mobile-developer-salary-SRCH_KO0,23.htm
And also check out Solana’s Phantom App that recently got some investments in the tens of millions to support its operations: https://www.fintechfutures.com/2022/02/crypto-wallet-phantom-launches-app-following-109m-series-b-raise
An exact cost hasn’t been calculated for this project, but it will probably be over 250k excluding maintenance. Anyhow, a release should be possible in late October/early November.
2 Likes
Thank you for that update. Some community members were interested in the helping. If you are looking for more team members please contact @thoglund
I don’t think there’s a lack of understanding regarding the scope of your project here. As you know I personally was proposing a similar project which I tabled in favor of yours. The questions relate to your expectations of reimbursement through AZ for your work in its completion and maintenance.
The project you are doing is massive and I believe will prove to be extremely beneficial to the overall project in the future but surely you’re not expecting to apply for a dozen or more phases at 5k/50k?
I think it’s reasonable to reach a mutual understanding of what the future and ongoing AZ rewards might look like for any given project. One might envision a situation where the community and any project could reach a stalemate where a project isn’t realized due to a difference in expectations.
None of us want someone putting in valuable time and resources only to be disappointed when the expected and realized rewards don’t reconcile.
3 Likes
@DrBlaze_21 We have some new community developers interesting in getting involved w/ the Mobile Wallet development. Are you still working on the project? Would you be willing let other community members join in the effort?
2 Likes
I began to work on the interactive prototype: https://www.figma.com/proto/oUykfWEFY0TIL8PApSiuXm/SYRIUS-Mobile-App?page-id=0%3A1&node-id=2%3A1339&viewport=6865%2C11090%2C1&scaling=min-zoom&starting-point-node-id=2%3A1339
There are some design alignment inconsistencies between some views, but overall the design framework has been well thought out. Will notify you all when the prototype is fully completed. You can begin to click through it to experience the design.
I understand that the intention was to of course provide design files + prototype for the 5K ZNN / 50K QSR, which was approved on-chain.
I recently hired a developer knowledgeable in Flutter, I think he will be a good fit to evaluate SYRIUS desktop and his ability to develop this mobile app at a much lower cost than $250K. He’s currently doing some work on the zenon.org framework, hopefully he can be done next week or the following. I will be introducing him to this project. So far from what I see that he’s doing for us, he’s capable, organized and works at a relatively fast and focused pace. Impressive young developer. I’m asking him to speed through our work so he can be proposed this mobile app project as an A-Z submission.
3 Likes
@DrBlaze_21 it would be very helpful if you could explain your roadmap to the community. We noticed you recently made some very nice design improvements to the Figma files. They look great. Last time we got an update you stated the project is more than just design and we could expect an update by year end.
Moving forward we are trying to do a better job of communicating with each other through monthly updates.
Can you please give us an update on your work? Do you need any resources from the Community?
I also think the design is missing considerations for diff resolutions/devices. From a height perspective many of the views will not fit on my iPhone XR (I know old). Unless you expect that the design requires a scroll (and of course some pages require that), but others where there’s a button at the bottom: it’s unclear what the design/experience expectation was. A few success messages are missing in the workflow/design file, but those can be assumed based on other styles.
I don’t expect him to reply, but if he does then I hope he answers questions about dev, though I’ll be assuming that the development is not included in his fees or future milestones. This could’ve had been started months ago if the milestone was ever planned.
I dug deeper, he played us.
If we actually look at the on-chain description submitted: Syrius Wallet Mobile App - Project details | Zenon Hub
It says:
Development of mobile applications for both Android & iOS using Flutter technology.
But then he requested the full funds for the “Research, Design, Prototyping” Phase.
The way I see it: we were led on to believe that the original entire proposal was for 5K ZNN + 50K QSR for “Development of mobile applications for both Android & iOS using Flutter technology.” … but then that was changed when he submitted the first phase and only delivered the drawings for the full submission.
In August he created the submission and it was voted yes. In September he then changes his POV and says it’ll cost $250K.
At no point in his early first proposal did he mention that he would need more than 5K ZNN + 50K QSR to complete everything. His submission on-chain says iOS and Android.
He got paid August 17, 2022 when wZNN was $2.10-2.20. Estimated value of the design: ~$21,500. What a waste. I could draw that same interface in 1 month’s time or less for free if I wanted.
Who’s fault is this? The Pillars and community not paying close attention to deliverables and the change in the project’s scope. No one noticed what was going on.
But hey don’t dare asking AZ to…
Massive L. We need better oversight on deliverables before pillars vote Yes on phase payouts.
3 Likes
I have an idea that’ll pivot the way we think about AZ, engage pillars and re-imagine what we were initially led to believe for Zenon. Will be posting a new topic, starting to type the vision.
2 Likes
@vilkris did point out that his last design revision was in January 2023, so less than 2 weeks ago. He was paid in full but continues to improve the design. If he was not acting in good faith I find it hard to believe he would continue to update the design after submitting it and getting paid in full.
He also stated in his last post this project was always about more than the design. So, putting it all together:
- Paid in full months ago and continues to work on the design
- Previously said his project is about more then just the design and said it could cost a lot to complete
- Has not coordinated with the broader community
My guess is he is still working on the project and I hope he can coordinate with the community so we don’t waste time building a back end that he is working on.
I’m tired of guessing this, hoping that.
For primary network objectives (such as the main mobile wallet), contributors should have enough respect for the community to announce their intentions* in a timely manner instead of working in isolation and throwing their work over the fence when they think they’re done.
When they do announce their intentions, we should consider these to be best effort – unforeseen circumstances happen.
But at least keep the community informed so we can make other arrangements.
For DrBlaze – if you have an employer, is this how you communicate with them? Why should your relationship with AcceleratorZ be any different?
I posted a note on the figma page 10 days ago. If we don’t hear a response in the next three weeks, we really should consider moving on.
* This applies to sentinels, smart contracts, NFT Standard, etc, as well.
5 Likes
The point isn’t if he’s still continuing to improve his design, it’s:
- The fact that his initial on-chain submission sub-title promised an iOS/Android app in Flutter. Many pillars must’ve from that point on thought that they were getting a full app for the cost.
- He then says it’ll cost $250K to build the app, but it can be done for October/November.
If he does deliver the app, are we really gonna pay him $250K worth of ZNN and QSR? ZenonOrg from now on is done with these big bang expensive proposals which promise one thing, and end up being something completely different. Project-based submissions in my opinion don’t work, the network is getting milked for those who understand: must accumulate as much ZNN as possible to get some bag. Imagine we instead just hired a network UI designer to work full-time, at $21,500 and an hourly rate of let’s say $20 per hour (depending which country we source the talent from), we could’ve had bought 1,075 hours of work. Do you really think this mobile app design cost 1,075 hours of work? That’s 26 weeks of drawing 40 hours a week. Insane. This design at most took him 1-2-3 months part time, and no where near 1,075 hours. At first when you see 5K ZNN you’re like “that’s worth like $5k okay fine” (you don’t really do any proper math and assume 1 ZNN = $1 for some stupid reason), but when you add it all up and it ends up being $21K, it’s a wake up call that we’re not paying close attention.
We’ll be proposing an alternative method shortly which’ll include the network acting like a regular company which hires and manages key professionals that produces work on a full-time basis.
6 Likes
I can definitely understand everyones frustration. And if this was a corporate setting these circumstances would not be tolerated.
In the future I think we should set the expectations for communication before approving an AZ. We don’t need a weekly update, but there should be some level of coordination with all the other developers here. People are busting there ass and we should be able to coordinate our efforts at a high level.
I’m going to continue to reach out to @DrBlaze_21 in hopes that he gives us an update.
1 Like
From my vague understanding of @DrBlaze_21 reply
- He acknowledges the scope of his work should not/can’t be covered by AZ funds alone.
- He didn’t even calculate an exact cost for the project. Signals intention to “overdeliver” at current market prices. Too vague for us, we need the terms to be more clear.
- Misses release date, which is not a big deal given the scope of the project. But communication with other community devs (especially given we had more than a couple interested in helping in this endeavor) must have a periodical and consistent cadence. Pillars should start to enforce this for future AZ projects.
2 Likes
He submitted the proposal on-chain with a subtitle for 5K ZNN + 50K QSR.
Development of mobile applications for both Android & iOS using Flutter technology.
And then later changed his mind on the price. Maybe we would’ve thought twice on the original proposal approval and its price if we would’ve had known it was only going to be for UI design, and that the eventual estimated development price would be at least $250K as he states. Things were convoluted. I don’t see how we could defend him given his total lack of communication and clarity.
Another possibility: perhaps there was speculation that the treasury would be worth more by a certain point, and the $250K+ would’ve been minimal as an expense?
I propose that we put an expiration date. If @DrBlaze_21 doesn’t reply/clarify by a certain point, we can assume he has no interest to communicate further and the community can move with its own plans.
- Let’s put an expiration date
- Let’s not
0
voters
imo there’s no need to wait for anyone who doesn’t bother communicating after leaving the community in ambiguity for so long. Best to just rip off the bandaid, accept that we’ve paid >20k in znn & qsr for mockups, learn from it, and move on.
3 Likes
At current market prices, we are paying him like 7k. I’m not sure whose band-aid needs to be ripped off. But given the amount and quality of the work, I think we are getting a good deal. If not, ask an actual designer how much that’s worth.
We should definitely learn from every single AZ project submission, this one is no different.
1 Like